For the record -- I am not trying to claim that people like Gabor Mate or Bessel van der Kolk (or anyone else) are above criticism when I defend them here; my issue is that Shrier does not engage with their arguments in good faith. Personally, I do NOT think all adult mental illness can or should be attributed primarily to "childhood trauma." For one thing, as I mentioned a handful of times in this review, I think environmental and dietary factors are playing an ENORMOUS role. I also omitted discussion of Bessel van der Kolk's role in the "repressed memory" controversy, which I have mixed feelings on and have read mixed evidence on. I honestly could have written a whole book about this bookl; I have a word document of around 4,000 words of material I ended up cutting.
As well, I said that I got a lot out of the chapters on schools. But It's important to acknowledge that I'm in my mid-thirties and the mother of a toddler ... I haven't stepped foot in a grade school in eighteen years and really have no idea what's going on in them. Plus i'm Canadian. So if there are significant issues in these chapters, I wasn't exactly the person to catch them, and I'd love to hear from people who are more informed in the comments.
EDIT (April 9, 2024):
This review, published today, has some good criticisms of the chapters on schools (turns out I DID miss stuff, not surprising!). Also other great points.
I DEFINITELY missed a lot of stuff. Some good points came up in the thread with Franklin (below), and I suspect there's more. The review by Leonard Sax linked above points out that Shrier's examples from schools all seem to come from California, for example. He also points out that while Shrier claims her book is about "the fearful, the lonely, lost, and sad" not those with "profound mental illness", these are not actual two easily distinguished groups and it's not always easy for mental health experts to tell who needs what kind of help, how much someone is at risk etc. As well, I should have clarified that while I agree with Shrier that medication is OVER-prescribed, I do recognize that certain medications have their place and help many people.
Please drop a comment if you spotted anything I missed (etc). I tried to give Shrier the benefit of the doubt in this review, but suspect I was too generous / credulous.
Wow. This is a tour de force, Meghan. Thank you for diving so deeply and so critically into Shrier's book; I was intrigued by the title of it and the excerpted piece I read somewhere (Free Press, perhaps?)
What is it about human beings and the magic bullet? I suppose it's our predilection for short cuts, but man, Shrier's attempt to pin a phenomenon as large as children's lack of resilience on just "bad therapy" is kind of nuts. As you astutely point out, there are MYRIAD reasons why kids aren't growing up -- but that doesn't make for a catchy title or a hooked audience.
Thank you for such a comprehensive (and well-researched) review. Maybe YOU should write a book?? 😉
Given the amount of bad-faith engagement here, the cynic in me wonders if Shrier simply found a lucrative market to tap. If I wanted to give myself the best chance of fame and notoriety as a provocateur (and probably sell a lot of books) I'd write something along the lines of "It's Not Your Fault: How Therapy Made Our Children Ungrateful, Feckless and Lazy" and deliberately misrepresent what good therapeutic practice involves (which is horrifically easy to do, as this book demonstrates).
PS: Alice Miller was definitely on target forty years ago re mental health practitioners and psychological damage, this is TAUGHT in any programme worth the letters you get at the end. Day 1 of therapy school: "You are not psychologically whole. How do we know this? Because if you were, you would not be interested in doing this work". If you don't have weekly private therapy for at least three years, and your therapist doesn't sign you off, you ain't getting a practice certificate at the end.
A very thorough review, thank you. I especially agree with “pick your experts carefully”. Early on, as young parents, we turned to Faber and Mazlish and found a great deal of helpful advice. Isabelle Filliozat has written wonderful books on parenting focusing on the neuroscience behind behavior; and gives advice based on research. I think they have been translated from the French into several languages. We also did attachment parenting, co-sleeping,long-term breast feeding, and all 3 of our kids are confident and gregarious individuals. Have some rules, stick to them and give plenty love 💕
I haven't heard of any of those authors! I found William Sears to be fairly helpful. I think it's easy to slip into the "there's a lot of bad parenting books out there therefore all parenting books are bad" thinking, but of course that's nonsense. I think problems arise when parents stick to parenting books (even good ones) too rigidly, using them as instruction manuals instead of loose guidelines or suggestions.
You quoted in your piece the book “How to speak so your kids will listen, how to listen so you kids will speak.” This is by the Canadian authors Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish. They provide training packs for parents to host discussion evenings: the Tupperware party equivalent of positive parenting! We attended some of these sessions with other young parents when our first child was born and it was just such a relief to hear that other parents were struggling too. Yes, there is some great parenting literature out there, but sadly, as you say, a lot of rubbish! X
Ohhh haha! I haven't read that book, it was one Shrier mentioned! I looked up the authors quickly and noted their educational background but forgot their names. (My memory is unusually good but I'm not a computer or anything :-p). Shrier gave one example of advice from it (don't punish kids) that I agree probably isn't the best advice, but honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if she took them WAY out of context. I didn't have the source material to check like I did with Gabor Mate, Bessel van der Kolk, and Siegel & Bryson. But frankly almost every time I DID check one of Shrier's sources or citations it turned out to be exaggerated, out of context, grossly skewed, incorrect, or non-existent so I suspect it's a mistake to trust any claim in Bad Therapy.
Yes, that does seem totally out of context. F&M are against corporal and humiliating punishments, which I think we can all agree are detrimental to a child (and adults alike). They offer excellent alternatives to traditional punishments that trigger the frontal cortex and help children to understand what they’ve done wrong and how to atone for their misdeeds. The focus on verbalizing emotions has worked wonders for our kids, and they are able today to open up and share their feelings. NB. it’s a continual learning process and we’ve made tons of mistakes too. Parents shouldn’t aim for perfection, it’s impossible 😅
Oof, so yes, misleading then. Shrier implies they claim ALL punishments are bad, no specifics (on page 189 of Bad Therapy). I think she might have done something similar to Gabor Mate (she claims he told Joe Rogan that time outs will traumatize a child but I suspect he said something more nuanced, I just didn't want to go and watch the 3-hour interview to fact check her). I tried to give Abigail Shrier the benefit of the doubt in this review, but I'm starting to suspect that was a mistake. I don't think she's stupid, which leaves the likelihood that she is frequently deliberately misleading readers. I'm starting to collect a list of issues I missed, might have to do a follow up post along the lines of "Worse Journalism Than I Realized" (or a better title I'll think of later, idk, I'm half-kidding, but I feel like I barely scratched the surface of issues with this book and there are people out there hailing it as a "masterpiece"!)
Gabor mate does say timeouts are traumatizing, and I agree with him. I think he usually brings that up in context of jordan peterson saying you put a child away until they are willing to behave for you, which mate considers as leaning in to conditional love from the parent. I think timeouts are for parents whose other alternative is to hit their kids. I don't think anyone outside of the west does timeouts. I grew up in india and if a kid misbehaved in a group setting, they'd be scolded and made to get on with the program, or be pacified.
We can’t really at the same time condemn and condone an act; it’s pretty confusing. The physical pain still comes from another person (not like stubbing one’s toe) and that has a psychological impact.
I see your point about other techniques doing probable damage, and I know that I have lost my temper and shouted and scared my kids when I should have kept my cool. It’s not an easy ride being a parent; that’s where good, psychologically tested techniques come into play. Thankfully there are some good ones on the market. 🙏
I think *narrative* matters! Okay, so a boy whacks his sister, gets a mild spanking, the narrative in his mind is going to be different than if he got a spanking for doing something like playing video games instead of homework or not weeding the garden fast enough. A toddler keeps running out into the street, and a panicked mother spanks him so he stops doing that and is safe. A different narrative than a toddler who, say, gets a spanking for accidentally spilling a glass of milk. Same with yelling ... there's a difference between a parent losing their temper on a rare extreme occasion, and a parent who yells abusive crap at a child for two hours. There's a difference between a spanking that happens right away, versus one that happens after an hour of shouting insult.
I've talked to several people who were both yelled at and spanked as kids. All of us say that being yelled at was more upsetting and long-term emotionally scarring than being spanked. (Mild/moderate spanking, not anything close to resembling serious physical harm). Context, context, context.
Both corporal and verbal abuse are damaging, the research is clear. It’s hard to say which is worse; as you say “context” is important. I saw siblings and friends abused physically and/or psychologically and what has struck me is that a significant majority have not passed these traits on; though many have substance issues, (Worth noting). We’re constantly evolving and finding better techniques with science and research; we need to learn and propagate healthier practices. It’s up to us to make an effort. X
Agreed! Western parenting has been corrupt for a long time, but there are many parents / families who are healing, doing better with each generation. Excerpt from an earlier Substack post on parenting books:
"According to Darcia F. Narvaez, PhD, author of the Psychology Today column “Moral Landscapes”:
“In our culture, we have pretty much unnested our children. We are missing most of the components of what helps a baby grow into their full potential, their systems to develop properly. That’s the unnestedness.” (quoted from The Myth of Normal (2022) by Gabor and Daniel Maté, page 167)
Narvaez characterizes Western parenting as being long “off the rails.” Her work frequently compares Western (and “colonial”) parenting practices over the past few centuries with Indigenous practices of childrearing, noting that Indigenous peoples in the Americas were “shocked” at the harsh parenting practices of the colonizers. Narvaez advocates for the “decolonization” of child-rearing, a call which is conspicuously absent from most of the mainstream “woke” rhetoric on the subject (leftist calls for government-subsidized universal daycare would be an example of further “colonizing” child-rearing, ironically)."
I think any form of corporal punishment teaches kids that physical violence is acceptable in certain circumstances. If we hit our partner, neighbor, or colleague we get arrested; so why is it ok to hit little defenseless humans? That’s my two cents. X
I see your point, but I worry that by avoiding spanking, many parents are resorting to stuff like prolonged yelling, guilt-tripping, shaming, and verbal manipulation, which may do more long-term damage. A mild spanking stops hurting after a few seconds. We forget physical pain easily. But emotional and psychological pain can stick around, really screw with you.
Physical violence IS acceptable in certain circumstances; such as in self-defence. If a guy gropes me, I think it's fine for me to slap him or give him a whack at the bottom of the sternum. (Not drawing parallels to spanking kids, but, for example, when my parents spanked my brother, it was usually because he had done something violent to me, e.g. the time he beat me up with his skateboard. Having grown up with a violently-inclined brother, I'm sympathetic to Abigail Shrier's argument that using "gentle" parenting when a kid hits his sibling is not particularly "gentle" to the sibling who just got hit).
As a mental health counselor/therapist, here’s my take. She admits she’s not an expert. She openly claims to reach out to those she deemed experts.
She also ensured we understand she’s not referring to children with actual issues, actual trauma, and actual need for TF-CBT, or something of the like.
She’s speaking to the parents who just hand their kid, whose goldfish died and is claiming severe emotional stress, over to a willing participant in the pharmacological nightmare disguised as a therapist.
She then points out problems with school psychologists (which is a huge problem) and suggest that we (teachers, parents, therapists, and medical professionals) are inserting ideas into their heads that didn’t exist prior. And I can tell you first hand that’s exactly what’s happening.
Her example is taking her 11 (or 12?) year old son to the ER for a stomach ache and them trying to ask him the last time he wanted to kill himself. That’s a ginormous problem.
I can agree that she is too hard on mental health professionals. She, at times, took the “all are terrible” route. Which is intellectually dishonest.
And I am certainly willing to yield to you and any other experts in neuroscience or medicine when it comes to Shrier’s claims.
But as for the overall consensus on therapists, schools, and medical professionals delivering and/or exacerbating iatrogenic effects and parents being gullible enough to let it happen, I’m seeing that in the counseling room far too often.
I can see this with a child in my extended family who started seeing a therapist five years ago after someone close to her died, and is still in therapy. I doubt it does her any good but it gave her a vocabulary that she uses to avoid self knowledge or responsibility. Ie: “sorry I’m not listening to you I have ADHD”.
Yeah ... there's obviously a huge problem in counselling. There are good counsellors and psychologists out there, but it's a minority. I hate the weaponization of mental health diagnoses, especially while obvious actionable factors such as diet and sun exposure are overlooked and dismissed (one of Shrier's mistakes in the book is that she doesn't consider the overlap between physical and mental health problems or consider that children's diets are far worse now and that would explain much of the rise in mental illness, and chronic conditions).
When I was in therapy during a difficult time, I told my therapist that I was doing stuff like lying on the floor and not getting up. She told me that it was my illness that prevented me from getting up and not to feel bad about it. I told her I was perfectly capable of getting up, and was choosing not to. She tried to insist that if I wasn't, it was because I couldn't. I found that ridiculous and unhelpful.
There are just too much absolutes everywhere. Sometimes there is bad parenting, sometimes there is bad therapy, sometimes there is bad teaching, sometimes there is bad diet, sometimes there is bad social media/internet, sometimes there is poor peer relationships, and sometimes it all comes together to create a perfect storm of a very troubled child.
Or...
Sometimes there truly are underlying issues that a child has that needs to be addressed but no matter what you do, it doesn't seem to get better for whatever reason. I think as a society we expect medical science/psychology to be able to fix everything that ails a person, but it cannot. Not everything is fixable.
Now I did not read her book, so I cannot comment on that even though you have done a thorough rehash, but honestly from having 2 autistic sons and having gone to numerous doctors, therapists, neurologists, psychiatrists over the last more than 3 decades, what I can tell you is that sometimes the shit is simply what it is.
All anyone can be asked to do is their best. I don't know of any decent parent who doesn't want the best for their child and would give anything to make this happen. It seems to me too much is written by people who have never experienced what it was like to have a disabled child or a child with issues. Sometimes you simply cant say put down the phone or be home by 10pm as if that will solve all the problems.
PS trauma is inheritable anyone who says its not is not a serious person.
Trauma is definitely something that can be inherited -- not just environmentally but also genetically. For example "lingering lyonization" describes the passing down of inactivated x chromosome genes to offspring (when it's supposed to reset). While I don't think it's studied, it makes sense that maternal trauma would increase the likelihood of this. (Lingering lyonization is linked to increased autism risk in children, especially male children!)
EKB, you're Jewish, right? Have you looked into MTHFR mutations?
Studies have found a significant increase in vulnerability to autism spectrum disorders in people with a MTHFR C677T (rs1801133) gene polymorphism or a A1298C (rs1801131) polymorphism. C677T is also associated with a higher risk of bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, while the A1298C polymorphism is linked to a higher risk of bipolar disorder and ADHD. The A1298C polymorphism affects MTHFR enzyme activity and homocysteine levels to a lesser extent than C677T and so the effect is smaller. Both polymorphisms are associated with a higher risk of several other conditions, including cancer.
These mutations -- especially the C677T one, I believe -- are unusually common in Ashkenazi Jewish populations.
They affect the body's ability to process synthetic vitamins, in particular folic acid (synthetic folate, derived from petroleum). It's possible that prenatal vitamins with folic acid, and various foods "enriched" with folic acid (which is a lot of them) could be contributing to your sons' autism. If that's the case, dietary changes might relieve some distressing symptoms (it won't reverse or cure autism) -- it would also decrease cancer risk later down the line.
I think this is fairly new information, so I'm guessing doctors etc 15+ years ago would have had no idea.
Here's a bunch of research on this (I think I'm going to write about it again soon too):
Thanks for this information. We have been aware of diet in dealing with autism and try to eat as clean as possible. But had not heard about the other things you mentioned.
Interestingly enough I couldn't tolerate prenatal vitamins, I had a form of hyperemesis gravidarum. So didn't end up really taking folic acid in pregnancy and will look into the effects of folic acid on autism in their every day.
But I wouldn't be surprised about more genetic anomalies in ashkenazi Jews like you mentioned above. We have so many as it is, not surprised if there weren't new ones found.
Hyperemesis would be an indication that you have the MTHFR mutations in question! It's good you stopped taking prenatal vitamins.
The issue is that folic acid is in everything in some countries. If you're in the US or Canada, you almost need to go gluten-free to avoid it. But of course it's by no means the only factor. There would be increased sensitivity to certain pharmaceuticals too.
I *think* there's also an interaction with sunlight exposure. Sunlight depletes folate levels (and folic acid). The MTHFR mutations in question result in lower folate depletion (so they might be an adaptation of lighter skinned people for sunnier / hotter climates) and consequently, when you eat synthetic folic acid, it can accumulate quickly in the body and cause toxic effects especially if you aren't getting out in the sun a lot (without sunscreen!).
Interesting because I went gluten free myself ten years ago and have never felt better. But can’t get the boys to do it. We don’t really go out into the sun and when they do we use sunscreen. I avoid sun as much as possible because I was dxed with possible mild lupus years ago as well.
I am so not surprised by any of this. Thanks for letting me know.
Interesting though what about the studies that show folic acid is good for autistic children.
FOLATE is! The natural stuff from real foods. It's complicated, but autism is associated with folate deficiency -- the issue is that excess build up of folic acid (the fake stuff) can block the body's ability to use natural folate and cause a "functional folate deficiency" where you have symptoms of folate deficiency despite labs saying you have normal levels (because of high folic acid).
Yeah, I suspect they'd feel better if they went gluten free (I know it's painfully difficult) and if they went out in the sun 15 minutes per day without sunscreen. Avoiding alcohol and seed oils and eating some tomatoes or watermelon regularly will prevent sunburn -- plus drinking lots of water.
You guys might also want to avoid using Tylenol. Tylenol depletes glutathione, which is necessary for detoxification. You need high levels of glutathione to help with MTHFR issues -- a lot of the good food sources are also foods that autistic people tend to avoid though (e.g. broccoli, cauliflower, garlic, onions, avocado). While I'm skeptical of supplements generally, a glutathione one might be helpful but at the very least avoid dropping your levels with Tylenol. If you switch to Ibuprofen for pain relief, be careful because it destroys your stomach. You could look into serrapeptase, I use it sometimes and it seems to help with inflammation and pain.
That’s interesting about Tylenol. But nobody takes that much of it. Luckily everyone here eats all those foods but I am going to up our intake. Thanks so much. This has been so very helpful!
Your article is a breath of fresh air on my soul. Therapists and psychologists should be questioned without painting with a broad brush. It heartens me to see that I’m not alone in the fight to defend my profession.
Thanks for this piece. I had some misgivings about her book but you put them into words. I share her skepticism of “parenting experts” and “gentle parenting”, and I can’t respond to a lot of her criticism of people like Daniel Siegel or “parenting experts” because I haven’t read most of their work and I try to read less parenting literature these days. When my first child was born, I drove myself crazy with these books. But even without having read their books, her characterization of some of their views seem… cartoonish? Is that the right word?
(I DO have Siegel’s book on my shelf. Maybe I ought to read it? I will say, I’ve been disappointed in some of the authors commonly recommended alongside him such as the gentle parenting authors, so admittedly after I finished their books, I never bothered to pick up his. My own parenting is going well enough anyway- my toddlers are well regulated, capable little girls. Everyone I know says so, even my eldest’s preschool teacher. I credit books like “Hunt, Gather, Parent” with giving me the confidence to do things according to instinct. So I actively try to read fewer parenting books. They were making me anxious and I don’t need to fix what ain’t broke).
But even without having read it, some of her characterizations of their arguments seem like straw men to me. I did read one book that Mate coauthored with Gordon Neufeld (Hold Onto Your Kids), which seemed sensible to me.
Honestly, I wouldn't recommend The Whole Brain Child to a lot of people, unless they were looking for something really basic. I listened to it on audiobook at 1.5x speed. The science in it is good but it's written in a for-dummies kind of way that I found obnoxious (I don't think I'm the target audience though!). I really just thought it was dumb that Shrier didn't bother to read it when it would have taken her maybe four hours tops and she would have avoided a lot of stupid errors if she had bothered. Glad to hear your kids are doing well! I'd avoid most parenting books LOL. The Mate/Neufeld one I haven't read but from what I've heard it's one of the best.
Thank you for your effort to address the book's shortcomings, which seems to have been a lot of work. You wrote in your footnote that "the possibility that young people are more fragile than they used to be in part because they’re being poisoned by pollution, pesticides, pharmaceuticals, and processed foods". I would encourage you to write an essay on this topic as well. I would love to read it!
I currently have one in the works on the possible issues with synthetic vitamins, including prenatal vitamins and food "fortification"! Will definitely be returning to this topic a lot.
Who wants to solve a problem when you can “manage” it and milk it for life? No wonder there’s more and more of whatever they’re “managing”; call it job security.
> The not-so-subtle message to readers is “this is so stupid I won’t even engage with it and neither should you!”
How do you manage to say that without being immediately accused of putting words in their mouth and lynched?
IDK but seems common. I recently realized Elena Bridgers wrote a four-piece takedown of Erica Komisar’s work while admitting she hadn’t read either of Erica’s books. People still liked it!
Yeah, that’s the thing that bugs me most, it COULD have been a good book, but I think she rushed it and her editors didn’t do a very good job of checking her citations etc.
I had a lousy childhood. Parents repressed trauma and are codependent but attractive and assertive so no one can see it. Teachers, therapists, etc, everyone tried to get through to them but the problem was never them. They’re monoliths, to be honest. They’ve never changed in the 42 years I’ve known them. They have no hobbies. Because they’re so self-confident, they were actually susceptible to any attack that wasn’t direct and so they were manipulated and groomed by an abuser who wanted access to me and got it. Ruined my life and they’ve paid me lip service but they don’t have the emotional depth to really understand. And yet….. They’re beloved, actually. Women worship my mother and defend and emulate her. Men who are more successful than my father swear by him and also try to emulate him. It’s the most disturbing thing. Good people who can’t trust they’re good people and can’t trust their instincts. The most important thing you can do as a parent is work on yourself. Children are emulators. You can talk to them all you want but you can’t stop them from copying you. Imo, the more you can do to deal with your own issues, the more you pay it forward to your children. It’s even written in the Bible. That’s how long we’ve known children will pay for what they’re parents won’t handle. Great review btw.
Yes, I read about this study a while ago (I think it's at least 15 years old). Great example as to why "gifted" programs are not necessarily a good idea ... and as the study predicts, a lot of former "gifted" kids don't want to challenge themselves, won't try something unless they think they can do it perfectly the first time etc.
For the record -- I am not trying to claim that people like Gabor Mate or Bessel van der Kolk (or anyone else) are above criticism when I defend them here; my issue is that Shrier does not engage with their arguments in good faith. Personally, I do NOT think all adult mental illness can or should be attributed primarily to "childhood trauma." For one thing, as I mentioned a handful of times in this review, I think environmental and dietary factors are playing an ENORMOUS role. I also omitted discussion of Bessel van der Kolk's role in the "repressed memory" controversy, which I have mixed feelings on and have read mixed evidence on. I honestly could have written a whole book about this bookl; I have a word document of around 4,000 words of material I ended up cutting.
As well, I said that I got a lot out of the chapters on schools. But It's important to acknowledge that I'm in my mid-thirties and the mother of a toddler ... I haven't stepped foot in a grade school in eighteen years and really have no idea what's going on in them. Plus i'm Canadian. So if there are significant issues in these chapters, I wasn't exactly the person to catch them, and I'd love to hear from people who are more informed in the comments.
EDIT (April 9, 2024):
This review, published today, has some good criticisms of the chapters on schools (turns out I DID miss stuff, not surprising!). Also other great points.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/sax-on-sex/202404/is-bad-therapy-bad-therapy
EDIT (April 10):
I DEFINITELY missed a lot of stuff. Some good points came up in the thread with Franklin (below), and I suspect there's more. The review by Leonard Sax linked above points out that Shrier's examples from schools all seem to come from California, for example. He also points out that while Shrier claims her book is about "the fearful, the lonely, lost, and sad" not those with "profound mental illness", these are not actual two easily distinguished groups and it's not always easy for mental health experts to tell who needs what kind of help, how much someone is at risk etc. As well, I should have clarified that while I agree with Shrier that medication is OVER-prescribed, I do recognize that certain medications have their place and help many people.
Please drop a comment if you spotted anything I missed (etc). I tried to give Shrier the benefit of the doubt in this review, but suspect I was too generous / credulous.
Wow. This is a tour de force, Meghan. Thank you for diving so deeply and so critically into Shrier's book; I was intrigued by the title of it and the excerpted piece I read somewhere (Free Press, perhaps?)
What is it about human beings and the magic bullet? I suppose it's our predilection for short cuts, but man, Shrier's attempt to pin a phenomenon as large as children's lack of resilience on just "bad therapy" is kind of nuts. As you astutely point out, there are MYRIAD reasons why kids aren't growing up -- but that doesn't make for a catchy title or a hooked audience.
Thank you for such a comprehensive (and well-researched) review. Maybe YOU should write a book?? 😉
Given the amount of bad-faith engagement here, the cynic in me wonders if Shrier simply found a lucrative market to tap. If I wanted to give myself the best chance of fame and notoriety as a provocateur (and probably sell a lot of books) I'd write something along the lines of "It's Not Your Fault: How Therapy Made Our Children Ungrateful, Feckless and Lazy" and deliberately misrepresent what good therapeutic practice involves (which is horrifically easy to do, as this book demonstrates).
PS: Alice Miller was definitely on target forty years ago re mental health practitioners and psychological damage, this is TAUGHT in any programme worth the letters you get at the end. Day 1 of therapy school: "You are not psychologically whole. How do we know this? Because if you were, you would not be interested in doing this work". If you don't have weekly private therapy for at least three years, and your therapist doesn't sign you off, you ain't getting a practice certificate at the end.
A very thorough review, thank you. I especially agree with “pick your experts carefully”. Early on, as young parents, we turned to Faber and Mazlish and found a great deal of helpful advice. Isabelle Filliozat has written wonderful books on parenting focusing on the neuroscience behind behavior; and gives advice based on research. I think they have been translated from the French into several languages. We also did attachment parenting, co-sleeping,long-term breast feeding, and all 3 of our kids are confident and gregarious individuals. Have some rules, stick to them and give plenty love 💕
I haven't heard of any of those authors! I found William Sears to be fairly helpful. I think it's easy to slip into the "there's a lot of bad parenting books out there therefore all parenting books are bad" thinking, but of course that's nonsense. I think problems arise when parents stick to parenting books (even good ones) too rigidly, using them as instruction manuals instead of loose guidelines or suggestions.
You quoted in your piece the book “How to speak so your kids will listen, how to listen so you kids will speak.” This is by the Canadian authors Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish. They provide training packs for parents to host discussion evenings: the Tupperware party equivalent of positive parenting! We attended some of these sessions with other young parents when our first child was born and it was just such a relief to hear that other parents were struggling too. Yes, there is some great parenting literature out there, but sadly, as you say, a lot of rubbish! X
Ohhh haha! I haven't read that book, it was one Shrier mentioned! I looked up the authors quickly and noted their educational background but forgot their names. (My memory is unusually good but I'm not a computer or anything :-p). Shrier gave one example of advice from it (don't punish kids) that I agree probably isn't the best advice, but honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if she took them WAY out of context. I didn't have the source material to check like I did with Gabor Mate, Bessel van der Kolk, and Siegel & Bryson. But frankly almost every time I DID check one of Shrier's sources or citations it turned out to be exaggerated, out of context, grossly skewed, incorrect, or non-existent so I suspect it's a mistake to trust any claim in Bad Therapy.
Yes, that does seem totally out of context. F&M are against corporal and humiliating punishments, which I think we can all agree are detrimental to a child (and adults alike). They offer excellent alternatives to traditional punishments that trigger the frontal cortex and help children to understand what they’ve done wrong and how to atone for their misdeeds. The focus on verbalizing emotions has worked wonders for our kids, and they are able today to open up and share their feelings. NB. it’s a continual learning process and we’ve made tons of mistakes too. Parents shouldn’t aim for perfection, it’s impossible 😅
Oof, so yes, misleading then. Shrier implies they claim ALL punishments are bad, no specifics (on page 189 of Bad Therapy). I think she might have done something similar to Gabor Mate (she claims he told Joe Rogan that time outs will traumatize a child but I suspect he said something more nuanced, I just didn't want to go and watch the 3-hour interview to fact check her). I tried to give Abigail Shrier the benefit of the doubt in this review, but I'm starting to suspect that was a mistake. I don't think she's stupid, which leaves the likelihood that she is frequently deliberately misleading readers. I'm starting to collect a list of issues I missed, might have to do a follow up post along the lines of "Worse Journalism Than I Realized" (or a better title I'll think of later, idk, I'm half-kidding, but I feel like I barely scratched the surface of issues with this book and there are people out there hailing it as a "masterpiece"!)
Gabor mate does say timeouts are traumatizing, and I agree with him. I think he usually brings that up in context of jordan peterson saying you put a child away until they are willing to behave for you, which mate considers as leaning in to conditional love from the parent. I think timeouts are for parents whose other alternative is to hit their kids. I don't think anyone outside of the west does timeouts. I grew up in india and if a kid misbehaved in a group setting, they'd be scolded and made to get on with the program, or be pacified.
We can’t really at the same time condemn and condone an act; it’s pretty confusing. The physical pain still comes from another person (not like stubbing one’s toe) and that has a psychological impact.
I see your point about other techniques doing probable damage, and I know that I have lost my temper and shouted and scared my kids when I should have kept my cool. It’s not an easy ride being a parent; that’s where good, psychologically tested techniques come into play. Thankfully there are some good ones on the market. 🙏
I think *narrative* matters! Okay, so a boy whacks his sister, gets a mild spanking, the narrative in his mind is going to be different than if he got a spanking for doing something like playing video games instead of homework or not weeding the garden fast enough. A toddler keeps running out into the street, and a panicked mother spanks him so he stops doing that and is safe. A different narrative than a toddler who, say, gets a spanking for accidentally spilling a glass of milk. Same with yelling ... there's a difference between a parent losing their temper on a rare extreme occasion, and a parent who yells abusive crap at a child for two hours. There's a difference between a spanking that happens right away, versus one that happens after an hour of shouting insult.
I've talked to several people who were both yelled at and spanked as kids. All of us say that being yelled at was more upsetting and long-term emotionally scarring than being spanked. (Mild/moderate spanking, not anything close to resembling serious physical harm). Context, context, context.
Both corporal and verbal abuse are damaging, the research is clear. It’s hard to say which is worse; as you say “context” is important. I saw siblings and friends abused physically and/or psychologically and what has struck me is that a significant majority have not passed these traits on; though many have substance issues, (Worth noting). We’re constantly evolving and finding better techniques with science and research; we need to learn and propagate healthier practices. It’s up to us to make an effort. X
Agreed! Western parenting has been corrupt for a long time, but there are many parents / families who are healing, doing better with each generation. Excerpt from an earlier Substack post on parenting books:
"According to Darcia F. Narvaez, PhD, author of the Psychology Today column “Moral Landscapes”:
“In our culture, we have pretty much unnested our children. We are missing most of the components of what helps a baby grow into their full potential, their systems to develop properly. That’s the unnestedness.” (quoted from The Myth of Normal (2022) by Gabor and Daniel Maté, page 167)
Narvaez characterizes Western parenting as being long “off the rails.” Her work frequently compares Western (and “colonial”) parenting practices over the past few centuries with Indigenous practices of childrearing, noting that Indigenous peoples in the Americas were “shocked” at the harsh parenting practices of the colonizers. Narvaez advocates for the “decolonization” of child-rearing, a call which is conspicuously absent from most of the mainstream “woke” rhetoric on the subject (leftist calls for government-subsidized universal daycare would be an example of further “colonizing” child-rearing, ironically)."
I think any form of corporal punishment teaches kids that physical violence is acceptable in certain circumstances. If we hit our partner, neighbor, or colleague we get arrested; so why is it ok to hit little defenseless humans? That’s my two cents. X
I see your point, but I worry that by avoiding spanking, many parents are resorting to stuff like prolonged yelling, guilt-tripping, shaming, and verbal manipulation, which may do more long-term damage. A mild spanking stops hurting after a few seconds. We forget physical pain easily. But emotional and psychological pain can stick around, really screw with you.
Physical violence IS acceptable in certain circumstances; such as in self-defence. If a guy gropes me, I think it's fine for me to slap him or give him a whack at the bottom of the sternum. (Not drawing parallels to spanking kids, but, for example, when my parents spanked my brother, it was usually because he had done something violent to me, e.g. the time he beat me up with his skateboard. Having grown up with a violently-inclined brother, I'm sympathetic to Abigail Shrier's argument that using "gentle" parenting when a kid hits his sibling is not particularly "gentle" to the sibling who just got hit).
This is such an excellent breakdown, thank you so much. You're very thorough and very fair.
As a mental health counselor/therapist, here’s my take. She admits she’s not an expert. She openly claims to reach out to those she deemed experts.
She also ensured we understand she’s not referring to children with actual issues, actual trauma, and actual need for TF-CBT, or something of the like.
She’s speaking to the parents who just hand their kid, whose goldfish died and is claiming severe emotional stress, over to a willing participant in the pharmacological nightmare disguised as a therapist.
She then points out problems with school psychologists (which is a huge problem) and suggest that we (teachers, parents, therapists, and medical professionals) are inserting ideas into their heads that didn’t exist prior. And I can tell you first hand that’s exactly what’s happening.
Her example is taking her 11 (or 12?) year old son to the ER for a stomach ache and them trying to ask him the last time he wanted to kill himself. That’s a ginormous problem.
I can agree that she is too hard on mental health professionals. She, at times, took the “all are terrible” route. Which is intellectually dishonest.
And I am certainly willing to yield to you and any other experts in neuroscience or medicine when it comes to Shrier’s claims.
But as for the overall consensus on therapists, schools, and medical professionals delivering and/or exacerbating iatrogenic effects and parents being gullible enough to let it happen, I’m seeing that in the counseling room far too often.
I can see this with a child in my extended family who started seeing a therapist five years ago after someone close to her died, and is still in therapy. I doubt it does her any good but it gave her a vocabulary that she uses to avoid self knowledge or responsibility. Ie: “sorry I’m not listening to you I have ADHD”.
Yeah ... there's obviously a huge problem in counselling. There are good counsellors and psychologists out there, but it's a minority. I hate the weaponization of mental health diagnoses, especially while obvious actionable factors such as diet and sun exposure are overlooked and dismissed (one of Shrier's mistakes in the book is that she doesn't consider the overlap between physical and mental health problems or consider that children's diets are far worse now and that would explain much of the rise in mental illness, and chronic conditions).
When I was in therapy during a difficult time, I told my therapist that I was doing stuff like lying on the floor and not getting up. She told me that it was my illness that prevented me from getting up and not to feel bad about it. I told her I was perfectly capable of getting up, and was choosing not to. She tried to insist that if I wasn't, it was because I couldn't. I found that ridiculous and unhelpful.
There are just too much absolutes everywhere. Sometimes there is bad parenting, sometimes there is bad therapy, sometimes there is bad teaching, sometimes there is bad diet, sometimes there is bad social media/internet, sometimes there is poor peer relationships, and sometimes it all comes together to create a perfect storm of a very troubled child.
Or...
Sometimes there truly are underlying issues that a child has that needs to be addressed but no matter what you do, it doesn't seem to get better for whatever reason. I think as a society we expect medical science/psychology to be able to fix everything that ails a person, but it cannot. Not everything is fixable.
Now I did not read her book, so I cannot comment on that even though you have done a thorough rehash, but honestly from having 2 autistic sons and having gone to numerous doctors, therapists, neurologists, psychiatrists over the last more than 3 decades, what I can tell you is that sometimes the shit is simply what it is.
All anyone can be asked to do is their best. I don't know of any decent parent who doesn't want the best for their child and would give anything to make this happen. It seems to me too much is written by people who have never experienced what it was like to have a disabled child or a child with issues. Sometimes you simply cant say put down the phone or be home by 10pm as if that will solve all the problems.
PS trauma is inheritable anyone who says its not is not a serious person.
Trauma is definitely something that can be inherited -- not just environmentally but also genetically. For example "lingering lyonization" describes the passing down of inactivated x chromosome genes to offspring (when it's supposed to reset). While I don't think it's studied, it makes sense that maternal trauma would increase the likelihood of this. (Lingering lyonization is linked to increased autism risk in children, especially male children!)
EKB, you're Jewish, right? Have you looked into MTHFR mutations?
Studies have found a significant increase in vulnerability to autism spectrum disorders in people with a MTHFR C677T (rs1801133) gene polymorphism or a A1298C (rs1801131) polymorphism. C677T is also associated with a higher risk of bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, while the A1298C polymorphism is linked to a higher risk of bipolar disorder and ADHD. The A1298C polymorphism affects MTHFR enzyme activity and homocysteine levels to a lesser extent than C677T and so the effect is smaller. Both polymorphisms are associated with a higher risk of several other conditions, including cancer.
These mutations -- especially the C677T one, I believe -- are unusually common in Ashkenazi Jewish populations.
They affect the body's ability to process synthetic vitamins, in particular folic acid (synthetic folate, derived from petroleum). It's possible that prenatal vitamins with folic acid, and various foods "enriched" with folic acid (which is a lot of them) could be contributing to your sons' autism. If that's the case, dietary changes might relieve some distressing symptoms (it won't reverse or cure autism) -- it would also decrease cancer risk later down the line.
I think this is fairly new information, so I'm guessing doctors etc 15+ years ago would have had no idea.
Here's a bunch of research on this (I think I'm going to write about it again soon too):
https://thecassandracomplex.substack.com/p/down-the-folic-acid-rabbit-hole
Thanks for this information. We have been aware of diet in dealing with autism and try to eat as clean as possible. But had not heard about the other things you mentioned.
Interestingly enough I couldn't tolerate prenatal vitamins, I had a form of hyperemesis gravidarum. So didn't end up really taking folic acid in pregnancy and will look into the effects of folic acid on autism in their every day.
But I wouldn't be surprised about more genetic anomalies in ashkenazi Jews like you mentioned above. We have so many as it is, not surprised if there weren't new ones found.
Hyperemesis would be an indication that you have the MTHFR mutations in question! It's good you stopped taking prenatal vitamins.
The issue is that folic acid is in everything in some countries. If you're in the US or Canada, you almost need to go gluten-free to avoid it. But of course it's by no means the only factor. There would be increased sensitivity to certain pharmaceuticals too.
I *think* there's also an interaction with sunlight exposure. Sunlight depletes folate levels (and folic acid). The MTHFR mutations in question result in lower folate depletion (so they might be an adaptation of lighter skinned people for sunnier / hotter climates) and consequently, when you eat synthetic folic acid, it can accumulate quickly in the body and cause toxic effects especially if you aren't getting out in the sun a lot (without sunscreen!).
Obviously "everything" is hyperbole but it's in so many foods ... pasta, bread, crackers, cereals, rice, cornmeal ... it's hard to avoid.
Interesting because I went gluten free myself ten years ago and have never felt better. But can’t get the boys to do it. We don’t really go out into the sun and when they do we use sunscreen. I avoid sun as much as possible because I was dxed with possible mild lupus years ago as well.
I am so not surprised by any of this. Thanks for letting me know.
Interesting though what about the studies that show folic acid is good for autistic children.
FOLATE is! The natural stuff from real foods. It's complicated, but autism is associated with folate deficiency -- the issue is that excess build up of folic acid (the fake stuff) can block the body's ability to use natural folate and cause a "functional folate deficiency" where you have symptoms of folate deficiency despite labs saying you have normal levels (because of high folic acid).
Yeah, I suspect they'd feel better if they went gluten free (I know it's painfully difficult) and if they went out in the sun 15 minutes per day without sunscreen. Avoiding alcohol and seed oils and eating some tomatoes or watermelon regularly will prevent sunburn -- plus drinking lots of water.
You guys might also want to avoid using Tylenol. Tylenol depletes glutathione, which is necessary for detoxification. You need high levels of glutathione to help with MTHFR issues -- a lot of the good food sources are also foods that autistic people tend to avoid though (e.g. broccoli, cauliflower, garlic, onions, avocado). While I'm skeptical of supplements generally, a glutathione one might be helpful but at the very least avoid dropping your levels with Tylenol. If you switch to Ibuprofen for pain relief, be careful because it destroys your stomach. You could look into serrapeptase, I use it sometimes and it seems to help with inflammation and pain.
That’s interesting about Tylenol. But nobody takes that much of it. Luckily everyone here eats all those foods but I am going to up our intake. Thanks so much. This has been so very helpful!
Your article is a breath of fresh air on my soul. Therapists and psychologists should be questioned without painting with a broad brush. It heartens me to see that I’m not alone in the fight to defend my profession.
Regarding mushrooms, rock on sister!
Thanks for this piece. I had some misgivings about her book but you put them into words. I share her skepticism of “parenting experts” and “gentle parenting”, and I can’t respond to a lot of her criticism of people like Daniel Siegel or “parenting experts” because I haven’t read most of their work and I try to read less parenting literature these days. When my first child was born, I drove myself crazy with these books. But even without having read their books, her characterization of some of their views seem… cartoonish? Is that the right word?
(I DO have Siegel’s book on my shelf. Maybe I ought to read it? I will say, I’ve been disappointed in some of the authors commonly recommended alongside him such as the gentle parenting authors, so admittedly after I finished their books, I never bothered to pick up his. My own parenting is going well enough anyway- my toddlers are well regulated, capable little girls. Everyone I know says so, even my eldest’s preschool teacher. I credit books like “Hunt, Gather, Parent” with giving me the confidence to do things according to instinct. So I actively try to read fewer parenting books. They were making me anxious and I don’t need to fix what ain’t broke).
But even without having read it, some of her characterizations of their arguments seem like straw men to me. I did read one book that Mate coauthored with Gordon Neufeld (Hold Onto Your Kids), which seemed sensible to me.
Honestly, I wouldn't recommend The Whole Brain Child to a lot of people, unless they were looking for something really basic. I listened to it on audiobook at 1.5x speed. The science in it is good but it's written in a for-dummies kind of way that I found obnoxious (I don't think I'm the target audience though!). I really just thought it was dumb that Shrier didn't bother to read it when it would have taken her maybe four hours tops and she would have avoided a lot of stupid errors if she had bothered. Glad to hear your kids are doing well! I'd avoid most parenting books LOL. The Mate/Neufeld one I haven't read but from what I've heard it's one of the best.
Also, just because of your user name, are you familiar with this haunting song? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiL9ItjmHRw
Thank you for your effort to address the book's shortcomings, which seems to have been a lot of work. You wrote in your footnote that "the possibility that young people are more fragile than they used to be in part because they’re being poisoned by pollution, pesticides, pharmaceuticals, and processed foods". I would encourage you to write an essay on this topic as well. I would love to read it!
I currently have one in the works on the possible issues with synthetic vitamins, including prenatal vitamins and food "fortification"! Will definitely be returning to this topic a lot.
Who wants to solve a problem when you can “manage” it and milk it for life? No wonder there’s more and more of whatever they’re “managing”; call it job security.
> The not-so-subtle message to readers is “this is so stupid I won’t even engage with it and neither should you!”
How do you manage to say that without being immediately accused of putting words in their mouth and lynched?
IDK but seems common. I recently realized Elena Bridgers wrote a four-piece takedown of Erica Komisar’s work while admitting she hadn’t read either of Erica’s books. People still liked it!
Well, I’m not surprised they liked it. In a bravery debate (<https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/05/18/against-bravery-debates/>, <https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/06/09/all-debates-are-bravery-debates/>), boldly letting everyone know you’re not the kind of weak person who would waste their time listening to their opponent must be pretty badass.
Lol thanks for sharing, gonna try to read those this week (no time today alas).
Nicely done Meghan. There's so much in here to unpack.
I'm grateful this book was written purely for the necessary conversations it will spark. Because we need to talk about this.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Yeah, that’s the thing that bugs me most, it COULD have been a good book, but I think she rushed it and her editors didn’t do a very good job of checking her citations etc.
Complex situations require simple solutions . This is the only way forward in medicine.
The Nurtured Heart
and
The Explosive Child
very good books for kids who need very good parenting
Dr. Sears book also
Babies, in general
I had a lousy childhood. Parents repressed trauma and are codependent but attractive and assertive so no one can see it. Teachers, therapists, etc, everyone tried to get through to them but the problem was never them. They’re monoliths, to be honest. They’ve never changed in the 42 years I’ve known them. They have no hobbies. Because they’re so self-confident, they were actually susceptible to any attack that wasn’t direct and so they were manipulated and groomed by an abuser who wanted access to me and got it. Ruined my life and they’ve paid me lip service but they don’t have the emotional depth to really understand. And yet….. They’re beloved, actually. Women worship my mother and defend and emulate her. Men who are more successful than my father swear by him and also try to emulate him. It’s the most disturbing thing. Good people who can’t trust they’re good people and can’t trust their instincts. The most important thing you can do as a parent is work on yourself. Children are emulators. You can talk to them all you want but you can’t stop them from copying you. Imo, the more you can do to deal with your own issues, the more you pay it forward to your children. It’s even written in the Bible. That’s how long we’ve known children will pay for what they’re parents won’t handle. Great review btw.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5xR5sdPa5x/?igsh=MW12b3R4eWlydTdpcQ==
Yes, I read about this study a while ago (I think it's at least 15 years old). Great example as to why "gifted" programs are not necessarily a good idea ... and as the study predicts, a lot of former "gifted" kids don't want to challenge themselves, won't try something unless they think they can do it perfectly the first time etc.